1974 Interview with Rudy Maxa of the Washington Post
Interview Transcript - Part 5
QUIGLEY: “...because they tried to
change the French Revolution from a middle class,
bourgeois, capitalist revolution -- constitutional
revolution -- into a communist revolution. Now Buonarroti is also the
founder of the Carbonari, of which Mazzini was the
head in the 1840s, which united Italy in the 1860s. Do
you see? So, as, if you start with Buonarroti, which
as far as I can see is 1893 and 189-, eh, 1793, 1794,
I think you can trace a connection down through these
various secret societies which culminate in the, uh,
Mazzini Carbonari. For example. Uh. Eh, Iʼll tell you
one thing.”
INTERVIEWER: “O.K..”
QUIGLEY: “Italy was able to get free
from Austria because, only because France defeated
Austria. Why did France do that? Nobody can see why. It
wasnʼt in Franceʼs interest. And yet France declared war in
1859 on Austria and at the battle[s] of Magenta and
Solferino defeated, and suddenly made a peace treaty
with [Austria], without freeing all of Italy. And the
reason, we are told, that they suddenly made the
peace treaty without, is because the king, the king, the
emperor, this is Napoleon III, was so sickened by the
sight of the blood. Do you see? Now, why did he do
this? He did this because in 1868 [actually, 1858] a
Carbonaro threw a bomb at him. This Carbonaro was
arrested, executed. But before he was executed, the
Emperor went to his cell, as I understand it, and the
Carbonaro gave him the secret sign of a fellow
Carbonaro, because, eh, the emperor of France in the,
who became, was elected president of France in 1848,
seized the throne in ʼ51 [actually, he seized power
in ʻ51, the throne in ʻ52] and proclaimed a new
Napoleonic Empire, and was overthrown by the Germans in
ʼ71, so he was the emperor for -- uh, [in] ʻ70,
really -- for twenty years. Do you see?”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh.”
QUIGLEY: “But he had been a refugee
from France, because he tried to make a revolt in
France, I think it was [in] 1829 [actually, 1836].”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh.”
QUIGLEY: “And as a refugee, he joined
the Carbonari secret society [actually, he had joined
many years earlier].”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh.”
QUIGLEY: “Furthermore, he was a, he was
a private policeman in the Chartrist march on
Parliament in London in 1848, the year he in which he
was elected president of France. Heʼs a mysterious figure. Do you
see?”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh.”
QUIGLEY: “So, what Iʼm summing up is
this: I do think there was probably a continuous
sequence of secret societies from Buonarroti -- [the]
ʻBaboo, Babeuf conspiracyʼ, which is 1894, or ʻ95 [actually, 1794,
or ʻ95] -- through the Carbonari unification of
Italy, which would be ʼ61, 1861. I cannot see anything
since then. It may exist. I havenʼt really studied
it.”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh.”
QUIGLEY: “But I cannot see any
connection between the Masons and the Illuminati,”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh.”
QUIGLEY: “Founded in Bavaria in 1776
And I canʼt see any connection between them and Ba--,
and, uh, Buonarroti.”
INTERVIEWER: “Well, now.”
QUIGLEY: “Well, now thatʼs what these
people are saying is all one.”
INTERVIEWER: “All right.”
QUIGLEY: “And some of them say it goes
back to Noah building the ark. [chuckles]”
INTERVIEWER: “Well. One thing that
seems to me that, uh, uh, the conspiracy theory of
history is appealing because [itʼs] mono-simple.”
INTERVIEWER: “If you raise one point
that doesnʼt fit, they say ʻAh, see how clever the
conspiracy is.ʼ”
QUIGLEY: “Yes. Now.”
INTERVIEWER: “They, they.”
QUIGLEY: ““Yes. I want to show you
something. This is what they start [with]. They start
by showing you a one dollar bill.”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh.”
QUIGLEY: “And they say ʻWhy is there a
trian-, pyramid, with an eye over it?ʼ Do you see?
This is the symbol of the secret society. Now, if you
ask people...”
INTERVIEWER: “Which secret society? Any
secret society?”
QUIGLEY: “The secret society, because
according to them thereʼs only one. You see?”
QUIGLEY: “According to them.”
INTERVIEWER: “The secret society thatʼs
gone through generations. Through...”
QUIGLEY: “Yes, yes. Now, if you ask the
United States Government why it is there. They have
great difficulty explaining. And they mostly come up
with
ʻItʼs, eh, itʼs the Masons, the Masonic symbol.ʼ But
then when you say ʻWhy should the Mason symbol be on
the American dollar bill?ʼ. And they have no
explanation. So there is something. If you look at
this monument in Alexandria to Washington. It is the
pyramid.”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh.”
QUIGLEY: “You see, you know. Now the
eye over it is the light. You see. So, uh, I could go
further into this, but wonʼt have to, because this
symbol is at least, uh, six thousand years old. And I can give you
the history of it [from] four thousand B.C. And it
has nothing to do with the Masons.”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh.”
QUIGLEY: “Now, maybe the Masons adopted
it, you see. But it has nothing... But I will not go
into that. Thatʼs a totally different story.”
INTERVIEWER: “O.K. So this man from
Nevada, this person from Nevada called.”
QUIGLEY: “Called me up. And said
they were having a hard time with the anti-semites using
this book
[ʻNone Dare Call It Conspiracyʼ] as an argument against
Wall Street, against bankers, against Jews, against
the Communists, and everything else. And they wanted
me to debate, with this fellow whoʼd gotten in touch
with me, who was a professor at the university.”
INTERVIEWER: “Who believes this?”
QUIGLEY: ”Eh. Oh, no, he doesnʼt
believe it. He was trying to get rid of it. The same
way the fellow who called me from Brigham Young was
trying to stop this
hysteria which was sweeping that mountain area,
apparently.”
INTERVIEWER: “Right.”
QUIGLEY: “And so they said ʻWould you
debate, uh, Gary Allen and Larry Abraham?ʼ And, uh, I
said ʻWell, Iʼd rather not, franklyʼ. ʻBut we need you
help.ʼ And
I said ʻWell, are they both going to be debating me?ʼ
They said ʻNo, there a Dr. So-and-So here, who will,
uh, debate with you.ʼ And he is, I think, a medical
doctor. Iʼm not certain of that. But he was Jewish.
And, what he was interested in was the the anti-semitism
part in this.”
INTERVIEWER: “He was going to debate on
your team, on your side?”
QUIGLEY: “By my side. And they said
ʻItʼs going to be absolutely the strictest thing.ʼ
Weʼd be on the air for an hour. Weʼd be hooked up on
telephone, uh,
through the country. ʻI will be the coordinator,ʼ said
this fellow, of this. ʻAnd it will be rigorous. You
will, must stay on the subject, or I will stop you.
There must be no personality attacks, or I will stop
you. You can each talk for ten minutes [I think it
is, or five minutes it could have been]ʼ. And ʻthen,
when each of the four has talked (I think it was for ten
minutes), then each will have the right to have a
five minute rebuttalʼ, or something, you see.”
INTERVIEWER: "Uh, huh.”
QUIGLEY: “Now, in the course of it, I
soon discovered that Gary Allen didnʼt know up from
down. But Larry A...”
INTERVIEWER: “Who...”
QUIGLEY: “No. But Larry Abraham was
immensely well informed. He knew all about
corporations, finance and bankers, and who were their partners. He know. Heʼs
tremendous. I...”
INTERVIEWER: “How did you find out?
From talking with people?”
QUIGLEY: “I found out from the debate.”
INTERVIEWER: “Oh, O.K. Thatʼs what I
was going to ask. You did go to the debate?”
QUIGLEY: “Yeah. Gary Allen just
repeated everything thatʼs in here [ʻTragedy and Hopeʼ].
Uh, when I put in my rebuttal, and said these various
things, he [Abram[s]] then started pulling in this information,
I mean, some of it Iʼve never heard of. Now, I donʼt
know everything. And the new book thatʼs out now,
published by the Buckley, I guess it itʼs the Bill
Buckley, press, Arlington House (I suppose it is Bill
Buckley, Iʼm not sure of that) called ʼThe Bolsheviks
and Wall Street.ʼ Oh, we got to go to lunch. ʻThe
Bolsheviks and Wall Streetʼ has lots of things in
there that I donʼt, didnʼt know.”
INTERVIEWER: “Uh, huh.”
QUIGLEY: “Stop this. Now, I, uh, I
talked, told you that. Do you want to put [that] down
there?”
INTERVIEWER: ”Yeah.”
QUIGLEY: “All right. I generally would
think that any conspiracy theory of history is nonsense.
For the simple reason that most of the conspiracies that
we know about seem to me to be the conspiracies of losers. Of
people who have been defeated on the platform, letʼs
say, the historical platform of the public happenings.
The Ku Klux Klan was the, uh... Their arguments and
their, uh, point of view had been destroyed, and
defeated, in the Civil War. Well, because theyʼre not
prepared to accept that, they form a conspiracy, you
see, to fight against it in an underground way. And,
those people who could fight, up in the open, do so.
Those who canʼt, go underground. It seems to me this
is essentially what [is] conspiracy. The Palestinian
Liberation Army is a similar thing, you see. Now I
think on the whole theyʼre pretty well a group who,
uh, has not got really very much, uh. And so, they have
to be terrorists. And...”
INTERVIEWER: “If I could play the
Devilʼs Advocate, I think, you, [with] talking about the
ʻinternational banking conspiracyʼ, they have not lost
out, they simply donʼt want any attention. They donʼt
want to...”
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